Professional Coaches and Personal Friends
Scroll Down for the Full Transcript
Introduction
What is the 3 Box Model?
Philosophies and religions both talk about the concept that we can decide how we feel about events – it’s our choice on how we react. This model takes that concept and helps you to do precisely that. It is a framework that allows you to consider everything that has happened, is happening and may happen and supports you in deciding how you will react and use it.
The three-box model is a framework to consciously frame what has, what is or will happen in your personal or professional life.
Why this is important
We can spend so much time and energy trying to bury things, pretend things are different, that we are different, and when we do this, all that time and energy doesn’t move us forward. It doesn’t make us happier. By controlling what is in each box, we get to choose what to spend our time on. Important in that is the ‘we”.
We take control. Nobody else. We get to determine what we want. We choose what will take our energy, time and focus.
Will a particular situation work against you, be a constant battle to control or actually work for you?
You get to choose.
This self determination is a key part of Self Development.
This model is a new tool in your mental tool box. This can help you to prepare yourself for a better outcome – allow you to take more control over what is happening and what is going to happen next. This means a more confident version of ‘You’. More authentic. A ‘You’ who is spending their energy better, leading to a more successful, happier version of you. You get to channel issues and experiences so you get better returns and a higher self confidence
Stephen walks us through the model and the 3 boxes - Deny It - Fight it and Use it.
When Stephen first introduced me to this model there was an immediate impact - understanding the framework allowed me to make sense of some things that I was unable to nail down before.
Once we understand that there are 3 boxes with issues sitting within each it helps to make sense about some of the things that are working really well for us – and why we sometimes seem to struggle. This understanding on its own is a confidence builder
Then there is the knowledge that the boxes remain where they are – but that issues can be moved from box to box. And you can make that happen. You can choose which issue is something you’re going to move up the chain and improve your own self confidence
As you get more comfortable with the model you get to think more strategically - Which situations work against you? Be a constant battle to control? Or actually work for you? Which situations is it time to move? Which do I need to acknowledge are there?
Full Transcription (AI generated so please forgive any typos)
Warren Hammond 01:07
Welcome back Podcats to another conversation with me Warren, and CEO of CoachPro Stephen Gribben. Now, this is a good one. This one is about The Three Boxes. That's the best way for me to describe it, you hear me struggling to try and come up with a decent description later. But in my head is just the three box model. Very powerful. For one it's a simple model, which we all know is always useful. This can change how you look at anything that's ever happened to you and everything that's going to happen to you. So it's an important part of the optimal appraisal process, and the whole self-development. We have the choices. The choice of whether we're going to spend energy fighting these things, or denying these things, or using these things. Not going to say too much, you'll quickly see how simple this model is but how profound its influence can be. You'll enjoy this one. There's lots of good stuff in it.
Warren Hammond 02:07
As always, there'll be some notes, we're doing a full transcript now. So you can read along, if that helps. Blogs, there's the models on the different websites. So get involved, get in touch, if there's anything else you'd like us to cover, if there's any questions that you have. Email is podcast@coachpro.online. Anyway, let's get going. Here comes cheesy music.
Warren Hammond 02:39
Today, as always, is a good topic. And how I think about this is the framework that it's described in. The three box model is how I think about it. And I use this and think about it in so many different ways. And I'm trying to think what is the perfect description for anyone listening to it. And the best I've come up with so far is this is a perfect model for better reframing of your past. Now, that's doesn't sound like the title of an album. But we'll go with it so far. So let's get to the expert, Stephen. Three box model. What is it? Explain to everybody who can't see into my head, what exactly is the three box model?
Stephen Gribben 03:32
The three box model is a framework where you can consciously frame what has, what is or will happen in your personal or professional life.
Warren Hammond 03:49
Okay, so this isn't just past then. So I've just said past. This is about today, what's happening today, what could happen tomorrow, this is about how you look at anything around you and think how do I put this into a better context?
Stephen Gribben 04:02
Yeah, it's a framework for empowering you to make that conscious choice and own where you place things that happen to you or things that you make happen in a way that has optimal benefit. So rather than things just happening to you or occurring, you get more of a sense of ownership, more of a self-determination of where that's going to go, how that's going to work for you, what you can use it for, how you're going to make that optimal. Whether it is labelled a good thing or bad thing or an okay thing to begin with emotionally, you making that conscious decision to then say I'm going to decide what I'm going to do with that. Whether that is a thing that's happened in the past, whether it's something that's happened to you just now or whether it's something that's on its way.
Warren Hammond 04:53
Okay. This is already bigger, as always. So this is anything that's going on around me, me, thinking in the self-development, consciously owning, this is the part this is going to play in my future outcome. This is how I decide how important or how I'm going to use this for whatever my future outcome is.
Stephen Gribben 05:21
Yeah, and look, this can be for the smallest practical things. I tend to first of all get to introduce this with clients, when they describe something as a Make or Break. And that's when I feel well, you really don’t want to leave that chance do you?
Warren Hammond 05:37
Okay. I think of this a lot when I think back, especially about past experiences, especially bad experiences. So we're talking in sales teams and stuff, then there's a way of recontextualizing, again, another awful word, about anything awful that's happened to us. Let’s say a bad Q or a bad month, or a bad loss of a client. This is something that this model can be used to reframe it and make it better. But you're saying this is not just bad things from your past. This can be anything from today, from tomorrow, as well as from yesterday.
Stephen Gribben 06:16
I think most people would accept we naturally see, or create, rather the opportunity to learn from adversity, learn from mistakes, in order to improve things that haven't gone the way we'd wanted. I've always looked upon that and said, Well, what if we could also learn from our successes? What if we could build from a winning position? What if we could use the victory and use the great result, to learn from that also so that we can recreate and enhance that. So this is not a fix? This is a solution. This is a way of looking at the things that happen and get beyond that label of right wrong, good, bad, strong, weak, things I wanted, things that I didn't want or liked or didn't like, and saying, well, that thing, which box is it currently in and which box do I want to start putting it in.
Warren Hammond 07:16
This is great. This goes straight to the heart, then of this whole self-development chat that we talk about is you know, the building on the strengths, that conscious ownership, there's looking at everything around you and deciding what you're going to make work for you. So where do we get started on this in the three boxes,
Stephen Gribben 07:35
First of all, as you've said this fits with self-development, and this is the 'why should you put things in boxes, first of all. There is a value in putting things in boxes because you objectify it at that stage. And therefore you can look at it more objectively, more intelligently, you can see it as a thing, rather than wrapped up into a whole mess of stuff. So what this is about in terms of self-development, this will allow you to become more self-aware that things happen and accept that things happen, good, bad, indifferent. It will give you more self-confidence and be able to say, I can take control back, I can be in charge of this, I can direct this, I can decide what box I'm going to put this in. That allows you then to develop creative self-management, so that you get things to work for you rather than you always having to work through stuff or deal with stuff. But actually your self management is putting that stuff in a way that works for you. Not always doing everything for it in the hope that it works out okay. But doing it in a way where it also then works for you. And then finally, that self-determination, where you can look at the things you have done from the past and say 'Which box am I now going to make sure I get into, you can look at the present and say okay, the box, I'm going to place this in is that box, but also for the future things that are either on their way or you want to create. This is how I'm going to use this to get to where I really want to get to, to reach my full potential and be genuinely happy and successful by being me, rather than pretending or living to other people's rules and expectations.
Warren Hammond 09:27
So the self-awareness, the self-confidence, the self-management, the self-determination, this pathway of self-development is so strong. And something you said right at the beginning, which I never thought about before in this three box model even though it's there, right in the heart of it, is the box. It's the fact that you are putting it in the box means you've labelled it, you've objectified it in some way, which then automatically means maybe you've removed some of the vagueness, emotion out of it, you've intelligently considered it. And the moment you label it, you can then put it into the box. And then suddenly, it's manageable, isn't it because you put it in a box, you've contained it in some way or another, and then your self-confidence, your self management and self-determination can kick in. So first bit of that process then is just as important. I never thought about it before is, the moment you put it in a box, that's an important part of being up in a way at the races.
Stephen Gribben 10:30
Yeah, and look, this goes into the five steps to manage emotion. The first one is to be aware you're emotional. The second one is to name it. And that is the putting it in a box. The third thing is to then say, Okay, once it's in a box, you can look at it, you don't need to keep feeling it, you can look at it and accept that's there. Then the fourth thing in managing your emotions is to pause. And that's just to give that that consideration, I'm going to make a judgement here, where am I going to put this. And then the fifth is to then make a decision. Because you've now allowed intelligence to step in front of your emotion to say, I'm going to decide where to go next, rather than my emotions, taking away all my options,
Warren Hammond 11:18
I love that, you know, allowing your intelligence to work once it's in a box. I mean, otherwise it isn't you self-managing, it's your emotional management. So it has to go in the box. Great. So just think of is the three box model. But I forget the importance of that box bit. That's really good. Okay, so this is an important part of the self-development journey of owning your own personal development in determining yourself what you want to happen next, and in the future. I'm guessing there's going to be three boxes, just a wild stab in the dark.
Stephen Gribben 11:52
You're right ahead of everybody here. But those three boxes sit on an axis first of all. So the two axes. The vertical, the one that goes up and down, is Return on Investment. Now, that's all the things you will put into stuff. So your energy, your time, your passion, your reputation, your health, sometimes your levels of stress, all the things you will invest in yourself. So that vertical axis, the one that goes up and down is the Return on investment. So that's what you get back from everything that you put in. The horizontal axis, the one that goes along the bottom, is your Confidence. So that is what makes you feel more confident, makes you feel more valuable, more important, your self worth your self-esteem. All that is wrapped up in terms of your confidence, makes you feel better about yourself.
Warren Hammond 12:52
So confidence along the bottom, clear and Return on Investment. And obviously, we're saying is this isn't a cash thing. This is energy, resource, mind, brain power, anything that you are bringing to the party
Stephen Gribben 13:06
Including cash, if that's relevant. So what you have is the first box is in the bottom left hand corner. So it's a box that gives you a very low Return On Investment and also very low impact on your confidence. And that first box is the Denial Box. So labelled with a big letter D for Denial.
Warren Hammond 13:32
That's exactly what I did.
Stephen Gribben 13:35
And this is where you have a situation or a thing that you're going to put in that box and almost pretend it didn't happen. Let's go into denial. Let's pretend this isn’t happening. And let's pretend it didn't happen. Let's pretend it's not likely to happen. Let's put ourselves in denial. And what that does is it diminishes any return on investment. You're going to have to invest an awful lot in trying to cover this up. or pretend it's not there when it clearly is and it's also going to undermine your confidence because you're having to pretend it's not there. This is the box in which you might say to yourself, I'm going to be successful, and just pretend this never happened. And hope that nobody asks about it. So it's the hole in a CV, where the dates don't quite match up. It's that relationship you try and pretend never happened. It's that accident you had that you just wish you hadn't done something to make that happen. You just want to try to erase it from your mind. I just want to pretend that never happened. And anything that's in there will undermine any return you get from everything you put in and also undermine your confidence. So from that box, you get a downward spiral, where you end up a negative return on your investment and negative confidence, you're going to feel less confident.
Warren Hammond 15:11
That's really good. That return on investment piece is because it's at the bottom, in my graph, I actually think of it as a low investment. But it's not. It's a low return on that investment. As you said straight away. And again, one of those lightbulbs is 'Aaah to keep it buried, actually takes a lot of investment, I just get a very low return, which is what the axis is labelled. So this isn't, it takes low effort, and it gets a low return, it can take a lot of effort, it's just I'm always going to get a low return on it.
Stephen Gribben 15:45
Emotions in there will be emotions such as regret, or embarrassment. And those emotions are only destructive, there's nothing constructive from them when they're in this denial box.
Warren Hammond 15:59
And we've said before that when we discussed Emotion Management, I mean, denying it, it's going to pop up somewhere else, isn't it? That's where I guess then the investment is because it's a bit like whack a mole, you're going to spend so much time trying to pretend it's not there. I mean, that's you're spending a lot of time pretending something is invisible, okay?
Stephen Gribben 16:21
You will find that if you are in that box, you'll develop abilities to create drama, and to deflect, distract, and distort something, because you're desperate for it to be avoided. Because you're in denial of it. It never happened. And when you have to continually remind yourself to say, 'it never happened', then what you're doing is keeping it alive all that time, which is why it erodes your confidence, and continually requires that continual investment, knowing you get nothing back.
Warren Hammond 16:57
Yeah, we touched on before is that if I consistently looking at the negative thing, you're building up the negative thing, which therefore drains your confidence. Because you're consciously going back to that page in your diary where everything was rubbish. You're not letting anyone else see it, but you're consciously keeping looking at it, just to make sure that nobody else can see it. Yeah, I get that.
Stephen Gribben 17:19
Now, you may have some things in that are traumatic, that you're just not ready yet to be doing anything about and therefore kind of numbing yourself from that pain. That denial box has a good use, but it is still draining both your confidence and it's still not going to give you anything back. But it might be a holding position that you're in for a while because it's a dark place. Because there's a cover over it. But that's what that box does.
Warren Hammond 17:49
And this goes back to your conscious thing is, and we'll discuss it at the end I know is, it's not that nothing can live in there. It's just to choose what you want to live in there.
Stephen Gribben 18:01
Yeah, I mean, look, it's okay to have something in there. Just don't expect it to give you something back or boost your confidence.
Warren Hammond 18:09
Okay, so the bottom left, we got the axis return on investment, we got confidence at the bottom. So the bottom left is denial, the denial box, okay, then the next box,
Stephen Gribben 18:23
The next box is kind of going up towards the right hand corner. So it kind of sits in the middle where initially what you will get is the level of return on your investment and it will move your confidence along quite a bit. And this box is the Fight box. This is when you're going to have things in that box that you're going to fight. So this is where you'll be saying to yourself, this thing has happened. But in spite of that, I'm going to be successful. So I'm going to be successful and achieve what I want to achieve in spite of what's happened. So you fight it. So you determine that you're not going to let this thing hold you back. It's happened. By accepting it's happened, it's no longer in denial, it's accepted. But now, you're going to fight. And you're not going to let that thing define you, you're not going to let that thing hold you back. You're not going to let that situation put you off. Therefore you're going to go for that next promotion, even though you didn't get the last one, to prove them wrong for not giving it to you before. You're going to go and find that relationship with someone you trust, in spite of the fact that the last person was disloyal to you. You're in that Fight It box which is a different energy. And initially, it does give you a better return on investment because it gets you back up and in there and also gives you more confidence in that you're now doing something. This is no longer holding you back. You're now facing up to it. You're fighting it and you're going to be successful in spite of this thing,
Warren Hammond 20:03
I mean, I know there's another box coming. But this already sounds a really good box. I mean, I can see that if there's something necessarily, and also my brain is thinking about the bad things that have happened in your past. So whether it's a bad job or a bad relationship or a bad experience, if you say, yeah, that's not going to stop me, I'm going to show that thing, whatever it was, you go out there swinging and fighting, that sounds, you're going to be motivated, you're driven, that you're going to want to prove the world wrong. So then, since I think this is really powerful, and I like it. And then other times, when I've heard you describe it, it feels like that sort of a chip on your shoulder type of guy, you know? And then you think, yeah, there is a limit to that, I guess, I mean, in a way, I can imagine it's incredibly motivating, and powerful and impactful and valuable. There is a limit, I guess, but it still sounds pretty good.
Stephen Gribben 21:01
Oh, no, this is a good box, this is a really good box. To get out of denial and into the Fight it Box is a great box. You will get up back up lift on the return on your investment. And you'll get a big up lift initially in your confidence, because now you're facing up to this and you've determined you're going to win. However, after a period of time, you get the law of diminishing returns, because it's exhausting. Because you're still fighting the same fight. And after a while, that starts to give you less return on your investment. And certainly, it starts to erode your confidence. Because whatever you resist will persist. And so you're keeping it alive to fight it. And in some ways, by fighting that this will not define you, it starts to define you.
Warren Hammond 21:59
Yeah, that makes sense. If you are using this to define what you are and who you are. So therefore it can never go away otherwise, what's left.
Stephen Gribben 22:11
So it's something you have to carry with you all the time. And while you're fighting that thing, you're not really, with open arms, grasping what's around you. So it's a really good box, an energising box, a confidence giving box, a great return on your investment box for a period of time. But it starts to get tiresome after a while.
Warren Hammond 22:36
That makes sense. Yeah, it feels like it's almost a good launching pad against something isn't it. I'm thinking swimming, you know, you push against the wall, and it gets you out there. But you know, you can't keep pushing against the same wall if you really want to get going somewhere.
Stephen Gribben 22:50
Yeah, and look this, externally all these things and also internally, when you're fighting against yourself, not allowing yourself to be who you are. Fighting against what you believe and fighting against what comes naturally to you. Fighting against the way you see the world. Fighting against, I'm going to be successful in spite of myself. After a while, you realise that you can't leave the room and leave yourself behind.
Warren Hammond 23:23
Yeah, it sounds great when you first say it, maybe it's because we started with the denial box, the fight it box suddenly sounds Oh Yeah, this is a great box to be in. Everyone let's get into this. So then the next box, let's get to that one, then because already I'm liking the fight box, but I get that you said about the law of diminishing returns and it's not going to progress is it. You're going to get stalled; you're going to get stuck eventually.
Stephen Gribben 23:48
Well, as long as you're standing your ground, you're not going to be moving forward. So that denial box has diminishing returns immediately on your return on investment and confidence. It takes you into a negative very, very quickly. The Fight It box initially gives you an uplift on your investment and also an uplift in your confidence. But after a while starts to give diminishing returns. The third box actually has a virtuous spiral where the return on investment and your confidence actually spirals up and away. And this is your optimal box for things to go in. And this box is labelled the Use It box. So a big letter U on it. And this is when you're going to be successful because of what's happened or what is happening or because of what will happen. So you're channelling and you're using it. It's a 'because of' you're going to work with it. Rather than grind the fight against it. And this is where you get to be successful by being you as opposed to pretending to be something or someone else.
Warren Hammond 25:01
And that authenticity, comes back to the self-development story then is the denying it is totally disregarding it, the fighting it that can be something which then is a true characteristic of you, which you're refusing to acknowledge. But then the using it is whatever it is, you don't label it good or bad. It's just what it is. And you're making this into a positive. Yeah, that already sounds better, doesn't it, then the fight it.
Stephen Gribben 25:33
And then you're going to apply it positively. This is where you can take something that you've labelled something as being a positive situation or a negative situation and then the question is, 'so what are you going to do with it? Are you going to be successful because of that, how are you going to use that? How can you use it as a platform on which to build? How can you make this work for you? Rather than try and work against it? How can you make this a really positive thing for you? Not necessarily a positive thing that happened but how can you turn this into a positive outcome.
Warren Hammond 26:11
And again, I think because of the deny it and the fight it, your mind automatically goes to something bad in relationship or in your career or in your life. And denying it, as you said, maybe if there's some trauma, or just unpleasantness or something you're not particularly proud of, you'd stick it there. The Fight It is kind of that chippy, I'll show me or the world or my last boss, or my current boss, I'll show them, then the Use It, though, that automatically feels positive, doesn't it? You're taking all of those things and saying, because of what I've learned, I'm going to do things differently in the future. Yeah, that is different.
Stephen Gribben 26:59
Some examples of this where it's the quality of the questions as it is for a lot of self-development, that you can take things from your past, and have it in that denial box, and while it's in there that's going to be costly, both internally in terms of your investment, but also in terms of your confidence. But some things it's okay for those things to be there. But you're ideally looking to say, well, how can I move things from there into at least the Fight It box. It's not required, and I've seen this to be quite unsuccessful for people who try and go straight from Denial into Using, because you probably need to walk through the fight it box as that gradual, solid progression. And equally, then by experiencing the benefits, but the shortcomings eventually of fighting it, you'll then put it in the use it box and keep it there, as opposed to then drifting back into the fight it box. But things from your past, whether you can think, well, this is I'm going to pretend this never happened, therefore, you're not utilising it. Okay, I'm no longer going to allow that to hold me back. But eventually getting into that use it box and saying, how can I be.
Stephen Gribben 28:12
One of the personal things that I will always share with clients is that I've got things in all three boxes, I always have things in all three boxes. But I used to have in that Denial box, a pretty troubled childhood, which, back in those days, was not as publicly recognised, which sometimes I'm thankful for, sometimes I think I could have benefited from. However, I've got things in that denial box that I just spent most of my school years trying to hide and pretend that it was never happening. So you'd need to put a lot of effort into distraction techniques, particularly when the teacher would be going around the class asking what the mum or dad did for a job. And my dad was a bad man. So I would be putting all sorts of distraction techniques into trying to make sure the question never made it round to me. So I had a lot of that stuff in the denial box. And I thought, I'm going to be successful at what I do, and just pretend none of that stuff happened. But after a while, I managed to get into the Fight It box. And I thought, and I'm going to be successful at what I do, in spite of all those things that happened, I'm not going to let all those experiences and all that trauma hold me back. I'm going to be successful, in spite of all that, and that did get me up. It got me to set my own business up. It got me to go and find clients. It got me to learn and research and get on the phone and send emails, push myself out to places all over the world. Because I was not going to let that background hold me back. And then eventually, when it started to diminish the return, I managed to get into the Use It box and I thought 'I'm going to be successful at what I do because of all that'. And in the 23 years I've been doing this I've never sat across from anybody who's been able to share some real trauma in their life that I haven't been able to deal with properly, because of what I've been through personally. And so I've genuinely got stuff in that Use It box that was in that Denial box for a long time. And that had to be in the Denial box to begin with, because that was a coping mechanism.
Warren Hammond 30:25
Again, that's, as you said, moving it from one, two, all the way to the end, I guess you kind of got to be ready. And I guess that's why there's always going to be some stuff in the Denial box, because you're not ready to empty it totally.
Stephen Gribben 30:39
And the value in this, Warren, is you not been trapped in that box by the situation but you deciding and being okay that that's in that box for now. And that's okay. But it doesn't mean to say everything needs to be in that box. And this is objectively, consciously determining into what box you're going to put things. And so whether it's, you lost a client, and you want to pretend you didn’t lose the client. And then you want to go and sort of replace the figures. And so you're going to be successful in spite of that client. Or you can get into that Use It box, and see how losing that client is a way of making sure I never lose clients for that reason again,
Warren Hammond 31:21
We talked about this during the ultimate appraisal about how do you reframe, not reframe, but use the past, to show that you are in the best possible place. That's the way you use, isn't it? What are all those things we've learned, and that's where I really use that model, I think, but the other ways you talked about this, the moving it through, you see this in so much, especially in your career, and in your life, there's probably a lot you hide, and you deny it. But then what you're saying is, as long as you consciously choose that it stays there for now, or until you're ready, then you're still owning this, you're taking the ownership of it, but you've decided, that's where you stay for today. And when I'm ready to revisit it, then I'll take you back out again,
Stephen Gribben 32:06
The definition of having choice is having other options. As soon as you say I have no other option, then you have no choice, you're not making a choice. So at least knowing there's three boxes, not just the one box, allows you to make that choice. And you can look in terms of people in relationships where they've been burned in the relationship or it's been a bad relationship of some description. And they want to put it in the Denial box, I just want to put it behind me and pretend that never happened. Or they can put it into the Fight It box and say now I'm going to have a great relationship in spite of the fact I'm going through all that. And you fight it. Sometimes you even fight your partner, take it out on your next partner, because of what the previous partner did, and all those things can work really well but eventually will start to work against. Or you can take that experience that bad experience and say I'm going to have wonderful fulfilling happy, tremendous relationships, because of what I've been through. Because you will know how a relationship goes bad. You will sense it quicker. You smell it earlier. You will know what the futile value of keeping an argument going and where it could ultimately end up. So actually, you can be better equipped because of what you've been through. But the important thing to be aware of on this, as well, is that and we have deliberately going down the road of bad, disappointing, things that you wish hadn't happened, through this model. This also happens for the good stuff. There are many people that will put the success in the denial box.
Warren Hammond 33:52
So if something good has happened to me in the past, I deny it happened.
Stephen Gribben 33:56
Yeah, because maybe you don't feel you were worth it. Or maybe you just feel it was lucky or people might look at you differently. So you kind of deny, you pretend not to have had success. And so you deny it to yourself, because you don't want to become complacent or appear as arrogant, or any of those aspects that you then say, I've been successful, but I'm going to pretend I haven't been. And also one of the things in there is that, and entrepreneurs actually get through this, entrepreneurs tend to know that they're really strong when their backs against the wall. So then they create some success because they're really good when their backs against the wall, but then they realise that they were at their best when their backs were against the wall. So what they do is they try and pretend they're not successful, to try and get the best out of themselves. And we all do that to an extent because we think I went from nothing to something. I'm going to pretend I've not got something. So that appears I've got nothing and all that does is it gives you low return an investment and low confidence.
Warren Hammond 35:02
So they're denying where they are. Because when they were really impoverished, living off noodles and water, they believe that's what it took to motivate them to build their billion business. So they pretend that it hasn't happened. So they're still impoverished students.
Stephen Gribben 35:20
And we all do that, to an extent, where we think the happiest times were when we had less. And so we deny the things that we then do have. And we're going to deny all of the good people, we're going into denial of the good things, sometimes for fear of losing them, sometimes for feeling not worthy. So we want to go into that denial about the good stuff which undermines your confidence and undermines the return on investment. You can then move that into that Fight It box of your success, the things you've got, and you can say, well, I have all these good things, in spite of who I am at times. I have people around me, in spite of how difficult I can sometimes be. I have great success in spite of getting it wrong from time to time.
Warren Hammond 36:13
Yeah, that already sounds loads more positive. But again, you can feel the limiting factor of it.
Stephen Gribben 36:18
One example I had in my line of work was that I used to pretend that I wasn't making it up. And a lot of the times I was making it up. And I remember sitting across from a client in particular, I was working intuitively, I was coming with the best intentions, but I was creating stuff. So you're making it up. And I had that in the denial box. I would pretend that I wasn't making it up. And that used to undermine my confidence and low return. So when it went really, really well, and it made things happen that wouldn't have otherwise happened, I would come out feeling 'oh my god ago I got away with that. And then I moved into the Fight It box. I'd think I'm really good at what I do in spite of the fact, sometimes I make it up. And eventually, and there was a client who gave me permission, he sat across from me, a very high profile guy, and he turned around and said to me, you're making it up. I thought 'Oh no, I've been found out. And he said 'no, no, no, no, you look insulted. The reason why I pay for you to come and see me every month is because if you don't know, you'll try and create something. He said, the bits I value the most are the bits that are created here and now, the bits that you're making up. And so I then started taking that creativity, that intuitive part and saying 'Well, I'm going to be successful, because I'm able to join dots, to create solutions, to make things happen that don't otherwise exist.
Warren Hammond 37:56
Such a powerful change, isn’t it? So incredible, you're doing exactly the same thing in each of these three, but how you choose to take it on just changes everything. I mean, then this feeds, as you said, into your confidence, and then that's going to keep building and building. And that gives you more capacity and more energy to take more stuff out of these boxes and put it into the Use It. As you said a virtuous circle. I think that's really interesting because that Deny & the Fight, maybe they've got that bad sort of starting point. You do just think this is going to be bad experiences or mistakes that you've made things that you're embarrassed about. And it's actually bringing them out in the open and actually wearing this with pride and using this to your advantage and making this clear that this forms part of the successful version of you. But the idea that it could also be good things that you're hiding and fighting. Yeah, that is, as you say, it's counterintuitive. But that makes total sense. You see people sabotage themselves and this imposter syndrome as well. This will be part of it, isn't it, their confidence is low and so they pretend 'it didn't really happen, it wasn't really them. In spite of how rubbish they are, they were lucky to be successful, but taking ownership of their great qualities and being consciously aware of how they did it. That's that use it box.
Stephen Gribben 39:23
You and I have worked on this for a period of time, you know that denial box is the kind of self-help where you're no longer looking at the strengths that you've got, you're just looking at the gaps. So you're in denial of all the strengths that you have. And that gives you a low low low return. Then you get to self-improvement which sits in the Fight It box because self-improvement looks at your gaps or weaknesses. So that's then you're looking to fight, you're looking to be successful in spite of the weaknesses that you have. Whereas self-development sits in that Use It box. It builds your confidence, gives you a greater return, it's more authentic, it's more genuine, it's being successful because of the strengths you already have. Now, from that position of strength, you can also then look at any weaknesses or gaps. And they will then be less challenging, and your solutions will be more authentic. The self-development sits in the Use It box, being successful because of who you are, not in spite of who you are. And certainly not pretending to be something or someone else
Warren Hammond 40:28
It's transformative isn’t it. You can imagine that if you had more and more stuff in those upper boxes, the confidence it gives you to do more things. And I think of sales examples. You have bad clients, bad Quarters. What you'll learn about yourself, what you know works, what doesn't work, what you'll never do again with a client, which clients you should never try and work with, again. What you can trust about yourself and the client, the team, the organisation. The moment you put this into the Use It box, it's not a cause of celebration having a bad Quarter or losing an important customer. But it can be an important moment in the next steps of the journey, isn't it? This isn't something to be hidden away like the ugly stepchild in the cellar. This is this can make such a difference. I love it. The Use It box.
Stephen Gribben 41:18
The use it box opens you up to wonderful things like synchronicity, opportunity, all those wonderful things, Gestalt, attracting things because you're open. And you're looking ahead seeing, and this is not just a past thing. It's looking at where am I right now? How can I use this now...? And also going forward when you're looking at these situations How am I going to be able to use that for even greater benefit, for even greater return, for even greater confidence so that you can get that box ready. Now, I've got things in each of the three boxes. I'm not one of those people who professes to be some kind of perfect guru. I've got too many people who know me too well. And I work really hard. And because I work really hard, I'm able to find new things to put into the Denial box the Fight It box regularly. But I know they're not there forever they're there until I decide to move them up that scale. So it really comes down to the three questions and the Denial Box is when you're asking, How can I hide this? or How can I get away with this? The Fight It box is How can I succeed in spite of this? Or how can I make sure this does not hold me back? Those types of resistant questions. And then the use it box is how can I because of this How can I make this work for me? How can I make this a really important catalyst for something? How can I make this a turning point? How can I get to where I really want to because of all this
Warren Hammond 42:53
There's something like a third of, I mean this is a made up figure probably, one of those internet figures, a third of billionaires have some sort of learning difficulty. You kind of feel that these are the people who put it in there Because Of box. Because of this, they had to learn how to do things really differently and they wear it as a badge of honour not as a fight it even, I mean, maybe that was how they started. I'll show school that I'm clever and smart. But eventually to get to that level of success you're embracing the fact that you are different, that you think differently, that you see the world differently, that you have to do things in a different way. And in fact, you stopped apologising for it, you've turned this into a superpower for yourself, isn't it that's
Stephen Gribben 43:34
Some of these things are external and it's why the highest proportion of billionaires, most of them have this level of dyslexia. As a community it's the most successful community there is, it's people who are dyslexic. And the theory behind all that is that very early on they got the gift of realising they couldn't do everything and anything. So they got to hone their skills on the things that they could do. Now that circumstance encouraging that in to the 'because of' box, but there's still a choice. They could have allowed that into the Fight It box or the Denial box. And it's where you choose to put those circumstances. Boxers will come from hard backgrounds. Tough backgrounds. The most successful boxers tend to, and they've channelled all that into the 'Because of' box. But not everybody who comes from that background becomes a boxing champion. It's that choice within you, not just that circumstance, but that choice within you to say, I'm no longer going to be in denial of this. I'm going to get there in spite of all this, I'm not going to let that hold me back and then getting to the stage of 'how do I channel this, how do I use this? How do I get this to make it work for me?
Warren Hammond 44:58
The numbers I use, I'm saying I, not THE numbers, you'll see why. A third of billionaires are dyslexic. And a third of inmates in prisons are dyslexic. And as you just said, so it's people choosing, and there's obviously a number of other ways, but it is that boxes, isn't it? You know, how are you going to respond to this. And you've got the choice.
Stephen Gribben 45:24
And having the choice isn't easy Warren, I worked with a lot of clients, kids through the years. Normally, when they're in that stage, where they're kind of lost. And typically, it's because they've been very gifted, internally and externally. So, talented, good academics or good at a whole range of sports or whatever, can almost turn their hand to anything, and they've got a background behind them where really anything's possible, which means they have yet to make that choice of, what do I make work for me. So they have so many options, that there's no real focus. And because they could do anything, they end up with anything. And that then takes a discipline to still make that decision in self-determining, sometimes when you can only do two things, that focus is one or the other. If there's 100 things you could do, then that takes another level of discipline to say out of the 100 things, I love 20 of them. But if I have to pick one, this is the one I'm going to go for. And again, that is still ensuring that you're not getting caught in denial with options, 'I can do anything, so I really don't need to choose. Or I'm choosing in spite of the fact that I can do anything. Or I'm going to choose this because I've got a whole lot of options. So it's applicable to any individual, any situation, any time in life. It is not too early and it's certainly not too late. But make sure that you understand that there are those three boxes, and these sets of questions to get you into your box.
Stephen Gribben 47:11
At an operational level of this, be aware that there are three boxes. And it's not just everything bundled into the same box. There are three boxes. The management aspect of this is to understand what these three boxes do, and ensure that you're placing it in the box that you have decided to place it in. And then that strategic level is you determining, ultimately, where you're going to get things to in terms of which box, because the thing is you're putting things in boxes already, but maybe not consciously.
Warren Hammond 47:47
So knowing where you want to get to, what should be in each box and start shifting them around. And for me, I mean, one of the big ones is on the operation level, knowing there's the three boxes, but knowing that things should be in these three boxes, knowing that you can control is at the management level, knowing that I get to put stuff there
Stephen Gribben 48:06
Yeah, and you get to put it there as opposed to other people telling you what box they think you should put it in or just I put it in this box and so should you. This is taking ownership, that self-management, because there are some things that are an awful lot easier for other people to move up into that third box. And there's other people who are determined to keep it in the denial box. That shouldn't define you. The self-management is you taking ownership, you taking responsibility for that, and saying, I'm going to decide which box I put this in. And when. Because you may not be ready to go right now.
Warren Hammond 48:43
That's self-determination. That's great. You decide.
Warren Hammond 48:52
The three boxes. Simple. Deny It. Fight it, Use it. Again, when you hear it, it makes so much sense. So simple. You have the choice. You can consciously choose to leave things in the boxes, or to move them. But having that choice is key. Self-determining your own future. Being aware that's the first thing for me. Just suddenly understanding that you can know that it's a thing, and they can be put into a box. That was of a great help to me. Anyway, one quick thing I did look up the numbers. Supposedly there was a study showing that 40% of millionaires are dyslexic, which is crazy. And about 30% of entrepreneurs are dyslexic. In one study in Texas, it was almost half the prison population had dyslexia and learning difficulties. Sure, there's a lot of causation correlation numbers going on there. But yeah, just want to clear that up is a big, crazy number. Anyway, I hope this one's useful. Hope you get to use it. I look forward to talking to you again soon.